The Islamic Tidal Wave

Tecnos · 05-05-2009, 10:54 AM

Please have a look at this video which explores the 'Islamic Tidal Wave' or, as the far right would have you believe - Creeping Islamification.

I am concerned that the statistics mentioned are not referenced adequately for my tastes, I am also not offering a personal opinion on this subject matter.

However the film is very interesting and certainly food for thought. Whether this film is preaching hate or a justifyable concern, I will leave you to decide.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1pnCldKZI

kidflash2008 · 05-05-2009, 11:47 AM

I knew there would be a catch to this video as the narrator is a Christian. There are many valid points in the statements, but the overall scare tactic does not seem necessary.

1. White Europeans and Americans are not having children like they did in the past. If the Muslim nations turn into a materialistic type society as Europe and the US, they will also have the same type of decrease in the birthrate.

2. Most of the old USSR was made up of Muslim populations. The government let them be, and much of Islam shared some of the views of Communism: no interest loans, no private property and helping each other out. The Communist government did not preach any atheism, or there would of been hell to pay.

3. Turkey is a model Islamic nation that does not have the radicalism that the extremely poor surrounding nations do. The royal families own all the oil and other wealth, while the populations live in extreme poverty. That breeds radicalism and terrorism. If they deal with the extreme poverty, many of the other problems will disappear.

4. The EU needs the immigrants to keep the population going. The social programs will not work if the majority of residents are elderly and retired.

5. Islam has lived side by side with Christianity in Spain, until it reunited in the 15th Century. Even after that, most people went about there business, no matter who controlled the city or state. As we see in Turkey, it is possible for Muslims to be democratic.

6. There seems to be a worry about a Muslim evangelical movement, but then the narrator talks of a Christian evangelical movement at the end. I do not believe in either extremist views, and would like the US to stay secular like Europe and Turkey. The Islamic Faith does allow for freedom of religion. As they reach the majority, the more liberal and moderate factions will be the norm.

7. Immigration is not a bad thing in Europe as they need it to sustain themselves. The narrator also does not screech about the immigrants from Mexico. I guess he will do that once they get rid of the Muslims. The video sounds much like the Know-Nothing Parties of the mid 19th Century when it came to the Irish and other people immigrating to the US. Change will happen, but it is not going to be as bad as the narrator thinks.

Tecnos · 05-05-2009, 01:22 PM

I agree, the overall scare tactic doesn't seem necessary!!!!!!!

But what if it's the truth?

kidflash2008 · 05-06-2009, 08:59 AM

It is the truth that Muslims will be the majority of the population in some parts of Europe. It will not be the first time, and the worry should not be Islam, but extremist views. That goes both ways, as some of the Christian groups can be just as extreme. I do recall some women's clinics being bombed, and doctors that provided abortions being shot.

If the Muslim population tries to push through Sharia Law, then I would be worried. If Christians tried to put in Biblical Law, I would be equally worried.

Tecnos · 05-06-2009, 07:11 PM

Quote:

If Christians tried to put in Biblical Law, I would be equally worried.

But your entire system of government and religion is based upon a Christian 'God' in whom you apparently trust!

Do you think the were considering Lord Bhudda in that? Ganesh? Yaweh, ninja God Jedi bloke??????

Tecnos · 05-06-2009, 07:16 PM

Quote:

...put in Biblical Law...

If you went to court, what would you swear upon?? the 'Beano'????

kidflash2008 · 05-07-2009, 10:37 AM

The majority of our Founding Fathers were Deists. Not one of our historical documents mention Jesus Christ or Christianity. They also made sure to put in the separation of Church and State and keep this country secular. I believe the United States is one of the first secular countries in history, as most of the other ones had a state religion at the time.

Actually, a Muslim can use a Koran to take an oath for the truth. The use of the Bible for swearing in people is old, and they actually can refuse that type of oath for religious or nonreligious reasons.

Teddy Roosevelt opposed Congress making the words "In God We Trust" mandatory on our coins and currency. He stated that the same gold eagles were used to buy prostitutes and play poker, and it was inappropriate. "In God We Trust" is fairly new, as it was made mandatory in the early 20th Century. There are some groups trying to still repeal it.

It is true there are Christian groups who want to put in mandatory school prayer although they state it is voluntary. Many kids who do not believe or non-Christian children would be bullied or pressured to recite Christian prayers. That is why there is also a vigorous effort to defeat those measures.

kidflash2008 · 05-07-2009, 11:04 AM

The Constitution and The Declaration of Independence both mention a Supreme Being and Creator. There is no reference to Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Zeus, Isis or any other deity by name.

It is interesting that the Goddess of Liberty is on our coins, and the Goddess of Justice is used in our judicial system.

Tecnos · 05-07-2009, 11:24 AM

And the words "In God we trust" appear where?

And swearing an oath on the Bible is not swearing an oath to 'Blind Justice' especially when finished off with the words "So help me God"....

Or perhaps during a presidential inauguration: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." - Since 1937, the ceremony has incorporated two or more prayers...

Nope, no God mentioned there. Where's the sneaky little so and so hiding???

kidflash2008 · 05-07-2009, 01:22 PM

In God We Trust appears on our monies.

So Help Me God has been dropped for the most part from court oaths.

I did not say God is never mentioned, but Christianity is definitely not. The term of God is a Deist term, and could apply to Islam, Judaism, and/or Christianity.

There is no state religion in the United States. There is mention of God and religion, but none are established as state religions. There are those who are trying to establish some type of state religion, but those have failed.

05-05-2009, 10:54 AM	#1
Tecnos Investigator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: UK Posts: 419	The Islamic Tidal Wave Please have a look at this video which explores the 'Islamic Tidal Wave' or, as the far right would have you believe - Creeping Islamification. I am concerned that the statistics mentioned are not referenced adequately for my tastes, I am also not offering a personal opinion on this subject matter. However the film is very interesting and certainly food for thought. Whether this film is preaching hate or a justifyable concern, I will leave you to decide. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1pnCldKZI __________________ Last edited by Tecnos; 05-05-2009 at 11:01 AM.

05-05-2009, 01:22 PM	#3
Tecnos Investigator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: UK Posts: 419	I agree, the overall scare tactic doesn't seem necessary!!!!!!! But what if it's the truth? __________________ Last edited by Tecnos; 05-06-2009 at 12:18 AM.

05-07-2009, 11:04 AM	#8
kidflash2008 Senior Investigator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,699	The Constitution and The Declaration of Independence both mention a Supreme Being and Creator. There is no reference to Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, Zeus, Isis or any other deity by name. It is interesting that the Goddess of Liberty is on our coins, and the Goddess of Justice is used in our judicial system. Last edited by kidflash2008; 05-07-2009 at 01:22 PM. Reason: added

05-07-2009, 11:24 AM	#9
Tecnos Investigator Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: UK Posts: 419	And the words "In God we trust" appear where? And swearing an oath on the Bible is not swearing an oath to 'Blind Justice' especially when finished off with the words "So help me God".... Or perhaps during a presidential inauguration: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God." - Since 1937, the ceremony has incorporated two or more prayers... Nope, no God mentioned there. Where's the sneaky little so and so hiding??? __________________

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05-05-2009, 11:47 AM	#2
kidflash2008 Senior Investigator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,699	I knew there would be a catch to this video as the narrator is a Christian. There are many valid points in the statements, but the overall scare tactic does not seem necessary. 1. White Europeans and Americans are not having children like they did in the past. If the Muslim nations turn into a materialistic type society as Europe and the US, they will also have the same type of decrease in the birthrate. 2. Most of the old USSR was made up of Muslim populations. The government let them be, and much of Islam shared some of the views of Communism: no interest loans, no private property and helping each other out. The Communist government did not preach any atheism, or there would of been hell to pay. 3. Turkey is a model Islamic nation that does not have the radicalism that the extremely poor surrounding nations do. The royal families own all the oil and other wealth, while the populations live in extreme poverty. That breeds radicalism and terrorism. If they deal with the extreme poverty, many of the other problems will disappear. 4. The EU needs the immigrants to keep the population going. The social programs will not work if the majority of residents are elderly and retired. 5. Islam has lived side by side with Christianity in Spain, until it reunited in the 15th Century. Even after that, most people went about there business, no matter who controlled the city or state. As we see in Turkey, it is possible for Muslims to be democratic. 6. There seems to be a worry about a Muslim evangelical movement, but then the narrator talks of a Christian evangelical movement at the end. I do not believe in either extremist views, and would like the US to stay secular like Europe and Turkey. The Islamic Faith does allow for freedom of religion. As they reach the majority, the more liberal and moderate factions will be the norm. 7. Immigration is not a bad thing in Europe as they need it to sustain themselves. The narrator also does not screech about the immigrants from Mexico. I guess he will do that once they get rid of the Muslims. The video sounds much like the Know-Nothing Parties of the mid 19th Century when it came to the Irish and other people immigrating to the US. Change will happen, but it is not going to be as bad as the narrator thinks.

05-06-2009, 08:59 AM	#4
kidflash2008 Senior Investigator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,699	It is the truth that Muslims will be the majority of the population in some parts of Europe. It will not be the first time, and the worry should not be Islam, but extremist views. That goes both ways, as some of the Christian groups can be just as extreme. I do recall some women's clinics being bombed, and doctors that provided abortions being shot. If the Muslim population tries to push through Sharia Law, then I would be worried. If Christians tried to put in Biblical Law, I would be equally worried.

05-07-2009, 10:37 AM	#7
kidflash2008 Senior Investigator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,699	The majority of our Founding Fathers were Deists. Not one of our historical documents mention Jesus Christ or Christianity. They also made sure to put in the separation of Church and State and keep this country secular. I believe the United States is one of the first secular countries in history, as most of the other ones had a state religion at the time. Actually, a Muslim can use a Koran to take an oath for the truth. The use of the Bible for swearing in people is old, and they actually can refuse that type of oath for religious or nonreligious reasons. Teddy Roosevelt opposed Congress making the words "In God We Trust" mandatory on our coins and currency. He stated that the same gold eagles were used to buy prostitutes and play poker, and it was inappropriate. "In God We Trust" is fairly new, as it was made mandatory in the early 20th Century. There are some groups trying to still repeal it. It is true there are Christian groups who want to put in mandatory school prayer although they state it is voluntary. Many kids who do not believe or non-Christian children would be bullied or pressured to recite Christian prayers. That is why there is also a vigorous effort to defeat those measures.

05-07-2009, 01:22 PM	#10
kidflash2008 Senior Investigator Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,699	In God We Trust appears on our monies. So Help Me God has been dropped for the most part from court oaths. I did not say God is never mentioned, but Christianity is definitely not. The term of God is a Deist term, and could apply to Islam, Judaism, and/or Christianity. There is no state religion in the United States. There is mention of God and religion, but none are established as state religions. There are those who are trying to establish some type of state religion, but those have failed.