God vs Big Bang and Evolution + ET

[TheNugzMan]

First off, this discussion is not meant to be a religious recruiting tactic. I speak of God like I believe he exists, because I believe he does. If you don't have the same belief, I respect that and will not preach to anyone about anything.

Anyway, a look at the title and you will see the two most popular beliefs for the creation of the universe and all living creatures, on Earth. I say "On Earth" because a lot of people think we are alone in the universe. These are two very different ideas about creation, but for the most part I think it is all the same thing. If I were to ask you, whether you believe in God or not, to imagine the moment God created the universe, what would you picture? Would it be a dark universe of nothing and then lights start to fade in and eventually you start to see stars and galaxies? That is not what I see. I imagine a Big Bang. I don't recall anyone ever saying that God was a magician and things just appeared. We spend so much time separating religion and science, I think we fail to see the fact that they are the same thing. Even if God were a "magician" you can still scientifically explain how a magician does his tricks. Just because you can explain how God does his work does not mean he didn't do it.

Evolution

It doesn't take a degree in biology to know that evolution is real, but to what extent. If you have a group of animals that lived in a moderate climate millions of years ago. And they migrated following the food to a colder climate, not all of them will be able to cope with the change in temperature. But if there is one born with a birth defect of coat of thicker fur, he would be able to handle the temperatures better. And possibly pass that trait down to his or her offspring. Which in turn will pass it down to theirs and eventually the trend will continue until you have an entire specie of thick coated animals that thrive in cold weather. That is just common sense.

Now to get onto the subject of extra terrestrial life. We have a thread here that describes the risk of letting the people of the world know about alien cultures. I don't see the "risk". That would be the greatest discovery of human kind. "But what about the religious people?" you ask. I have broken this down into the simplest form of explanation that I can. We have 2 basic groups of people on Earth and 3 reasons why the government wouldn't tell us about it.

Two groups of people:

• Religious
• Non Religious

3 main reasons the government will not tell us.

• Civil unrest - Rioting, looting etc...
• Mass Suicide
• Collapse of religion

Lets discuss this in detail and why I think the "risk" is not a valid argument for not telling the world. First we will start with the 3 main reasons they will not tell us.

• Civil Unrest - Some people worry that the news of ET life would spark mass rioting and panic. I'm not convinced that this would happen. Shock is most likely the effect people would feel but if some people did start to riot, I imagine those are the people that are looking for a reason to riot anyway.
  
• Mass Suicide - If people are willing to kill themselves over this then they are already mentally unstable people and would probably do it for another reason.
  
• Collapse of Religion - This is a huge argument that people have been debating over for years. I don't think people will lose their faith just because we find life elsewhere in the universe. That in no way would invalidate anyone's God. I don't think that in anyone's holy text that that persons particular God states that they were the first one and only ones he created. But for the same reasons, why would someone think that anyone's God were invalidated over the same discovery. What proof does that person have that no one else in the world has?

Two groups of people that do not believe in ET life.

Non-Religious People - If you do not believe in the existence of a God, then you most likely believe in the Big Bang Theory. Now if it is believable to you that everything in the universe came together perfect enough for the specific proteins to combine that ended up becoming living creatures, then why is it so hard to believe that it happened elsewhere, when there are millions of galaxies each containing trillions of stars and possibly millions of planets?

Religious People - If you believe that the universe and all living creatures were created by God, then why did he make the universe so large if there was only life on one planet? A small percentage of the universe is visible to us, are we really that complacent that we think God made the universe just for us? To make a single planet with life when there are millions of galaxies each containing trillions of stars and possibly millions of planets?

[Mingus]

The point on suicide is not quite correct, in my opinion. I think they'd commit suicide because everything they ever thought they knew may have been a lie (particularly if they are mainstream scientists or religious peoples). If your reality is totally shattered by the existence of ET, how are you going to cope with this? You're pretty much out of a job (particularly if you're anti-ET and a Bill Nye type), you're own profession has left you in the dust in the wake of learning about all these black project and fringe research groups that have discovered way more about science than you ever thought imaginable (and could be considered a college degree's worth of time - 4+ years); and on top of that, you're faith is then shattered too because of the simplistic mindsets we get into ("If ET exist, God can't exist", etc).

[TheNugzMan]

Originally Posted by Mingus

The point on suicide is not quite correct, in my opinion. I think they'd commit suicide because everything they ever thought they knew may have been a lie (particularly if they are mainstream scientists or religious peoples). If your reality is totally shattered by the existence of ET, how are you going to cope with this? You're pretty much out of a job (particularly if you're anti-ET and a Bill Nye type), you're own profession has left you in the dust in the wake of learning about all these black project and fringe research groups that have discovered way more about science than you ever thought imaginable (and could be considered a college degree's worth of time - 4+ years); and on top of that, you're faith is then shattered too because of the simplistic mindsets we get into ("If ET exist, God can't exist", etc).

The type of people that I put in bold in your post are the people that I would have absolutely no sympathy for. It's their close mindedness that would have done it to themselves. It wouldn't be the rest of the worlds fault that they are close minded and tend to be followers instead of thinking for themselves, because if anyone actually thought about it they would come to the realization that the possibility of ET life vastly outweighs the possibility of not. The universe is huge, beyond human comprehension. So if you can't understand how large the universe is, how can you come to the conclusion that we are the only life in it?

[Terminator]

There are two things I don't get.....

a. I don't believe scientists are so blinkered that they would commit suicide if an ET was identified. "Recent Creationists" probably would, however.

b. Why would God produce a Universal manual of worthy and holy practice for Earth alone? What sense would our distant forefathers have made of that? Perhaps, if one meanders down the religious trail, would it not be acceptable that EACH of God's Edens/Worlds could have their own, appropriate Holy Book? Just a thought.......

[lemonelemi]

Originally Posted by Terminator

b. Why would God produce a Universal manual of worthy and holy practice for Earth alone? What sense would our distant forefathers have made of that? Perhaps, if one meanders down the religious trail, would it not be acceptable that EACH of God's Edens/Worlds could have their own, appropriate Holy Book? Just a thought.......

Religion is man made. God has nothing to do with it.. at least that's my opinion. More deaths, grief and misery, more wars and terror, have been caused by religion or done in the name of religion than any other factor. Religion is, and always has been, a tool for controlling the masses.

This planet, this Earth, this spiritual hell hole, is a place of learning. We come here to learn very hard lessons. That's why it's isolated. What advanced and highly spiritual life form in it's right mind, would bother to make contact with us? Until we learn to respect and love each other, until we stop slaughtering and warring with each other, and until we start to respect and stop abusing our planet, then we remain alone until we begin to develop more spiritually and are more deserving of being subjected to more advanced cultures.

Do I believe in Alien abductions? No. They belong in the same category as crop circles... manipulative hogwash.

[TheNugzMan]

Originally Posted by lemonelemi

Religion is man made. God has nothing to do with it.. at least that's my opinion. More deaths, grief and misery, more wars and terror, have been caused by religion or done in the name of religion than any other factor. Religion is, and always has been, a tool for controlling the masses.

This planet, this Earth, this spiritual hell hole, is a place of learning. We come here to learn very hard lessons. That's why it's isolated. What advanced and highly spiritual life form in it's right mind, would bother to make contact with us? Until we learn to respect and love each other, until we stop slaughtering and warring with each other, and until we start to respect and stop abusing our planet, then we remain alone until we begin to develop more spiritually and are more deserving of being subjected to more advanced cultures.

Do I believe in Alien abductions? No. They belong in the same category as crop circles... manipulative hogwash.

Although I can't agree with the controlling the masses, I do agree with everything else in your post. Especially the part about ET visitation. For another life form to make physical contact with us they would need to be a minimum of a class 2 civilization (A civilization from a relatively close star). And us being a class 0 civilization, yes that's right we don't even rank on the scale, we are of absolutely no importance to anyone. The difference between us, a class 0, and a class 2 civilization, is the same as the difference between humans and ants. Michio Kaku describes this very well in a number of videos on YouTube.

[lemonelemi]

Originally Posted by TheNugzMan

Although I can't agree with the controlling the masses,

I'm interested on your take on this. Can you name one religion that does not exercise an element of control....bar Buddism, which is not really a religion but more a way of life.

[TheNugzMan]

Let me clarify, there was a time when what you said was true but not anymore. Religion has been booted from schools and we are at a point when it is almost taboo to talk about being religious. When Obama was running for president, someone asked him about his religion and after he responded, he was criticized by his opponents for being religious. So I don't agree with that statement today, but yes there was a time when that was 100% correct.

[lemonelemi]

Originally Posted by TheNugzMan

Religion has been booted from schools and we are at a point when it is almost taboo to talk about being religious..

That is not a relevant statement for all religion. Islam, Catholicism and the Jewish faith is still very much subscribed to and revered. But I take your point and concede, yes, it is less in Western society today than of yore. However, in many parts of the world it is still scarily being used to great effect as a battering ram.

[TheNugzMan]

I guess I gave you a pretty narrow minded answer. Unfortunately I can only speak about things I know. I don't know that much about other religions so references are from my own religion and experiences.