Is the Bible A Source Of Fact?

[Geri_Mars]

Originally Posted by grimmett

Human spirits CAN NOT possess,they dont have that power.
Possession is mentioned in the bible:Matthew 12:22-28.

1st of all you can't proove they cant take over you....and the bible is not what I call a source of fact....

[grimmett]

And what exactly would be your source of facts?
Im not sure how old you are but from the sounds of your inexperiences im sure i was in this area of expertise when you was still in diapers.
So present your source of facts with proof as you say.

You cant say you actually have proof until you have experienced what your claiming or witnessed,thats the only true proof there is.
All other assumptions are by what you choose to believe and can also boil down to matter of opinion,but we all know what they say about opinions.

[grimmett]

Can any deceased person's spirit become demonic?

A deceased person's spirit cannot become demonic. Although some people can obviously be incredibly mean during life, an actual demonic spirit is a separate class of being altogether, and was never a human being.
In the same way, a true angelic being never actually lived as a human being. Angels were created by God as a separate order, before humans ever came into existence.


When investigating an alleged haunting, how do you differentiate between a human or benevolent (angelic) spirit and an evil (demonic) or inhuman spirit?

At first, certain inhuman demonic spirits (depending upon their individual modus operandi) will appear the same as human spirits, and may even go all out to appear innocent, lost (a ploy for sympathy and to gain an element of trust) and sweet. Others will appear malicious at the outset. Going in with a positive attitude, and radiating faith in God, will usually reveal the nature of a spirit, at least to a certain extent.


Most likely a malicious inhuman spirit will at first remain very elusive, to avoid detection. There is also quite a difference in the level of activity in an inhuman haunt.


How can you distinguish a demon from a spirit, haunting or other entity?

In a demonic haunting, the entity or entities present will tend to target certain individuals.
There will be systematic strategy involved.


How do you validate that demons are present?

This is dependent upon the level and intensity of activity taking place.
Usually this is done with religious provocation, the purpose being to obtain a reaction from demonic spirits that may be present.


Why do demons attack?

For two reasons:
1) They are extremely envious of us because we have been given the gifts of life and free choice by our Creator.
2) They seek to mock God by debasing and dehumanizing His creation, namely us.


Why do demons possess people, what is the purpose?

There are essentially three main reasons why a demon would seek to possess a human being:

1) They are incorporeal beings, and are therefore envious of the gift of life which God has given us. Only by entering into a person can they hope to temporarily experience the pleasures of the flesh, which we as living people often take for granted.
2) Since we are created in the image of God, demons seek to possess a human being as a way of perverting, or dehumanizing God's creation. Demons consider this a way of "getting back" at their Divine Creator, for their expulsion from the Heavenly realm.
3) Demons sometimes possess people to perform Satan's direct will through them.


How exactly do demons possess a victim's body or mind?

The way a demon will most likely be able to possess a person is by a systematic breaking down of that individual's will. Also, for a demon to invade someone's psyche, the person must sometimes "Invite" the demonic entity in...or be deceived or oppressed into doing so.
Actual demonic possession is extremely rare, by the way.


Does Satan himself possess most people, or is it the other demons mainly?

Satan himself, as well as his High Lords (devils), rarely, in fact almost never, participate in the possession of human beings. This is mainly the work of demons.
In Scripture, there are only two instances of Satan directly becoming involved with the possession of a human. These are:
1) When Satan enters into Judas Iscariot, after Judas has decided to betray Jesus.
2) Satan's future direct possession of the Antichrist, in the Book of Revelation

Is the percentage of male or female possessions more?

It's hard to tell if the percentage is more male than female in actual possessions. To my knowledge, they seem about equal.
In general, women seem to be somewhat more susceptible to demonic oppression, although women generally seem to be able to cope with the long term effects of oppression better than men. This is because men often tend to go into a state of denial


Do you believe that ghosts are formerly people or that that which are called ghosts are actually non-human entities?

When confronted with a haunting, be it in a home in which a presence dwells, or through an individual who has come under possession, I do not immediately react as if faced with an inhuman spirit. Rather, I give it the opportunity to prove if it is in reality 'lost little Sally' or 'dead Uncle Fred'.


In all my years, never once have I encountered a spirit presence such as this (claiming to be a deceased human), which will not inevitably react negatively when asked about the presence of holy angels or of Jesus Christ. The spirit either avoids this line of interrogation altogether (if it is rapping on walls or speaking through a person), or if I persist, the reaction will be violent.


And so, to answer your question more specifically: With the possible exception of some "residual" (playback or time displacement) phenomena, I believe that spirits involved in haunting and possessions are inhuman entities, working against God...and not the disembodied spirits of humans.


Has any possessed person (or demonic presence) ever been video taped or otherwise recorded?

Yes, demonic possession has been videotaped, and recorded on still photos and on audio.
The same applies to demons manifesting in spirit form; the audio recordings are normally in the form of EVP (Electronic Voice Phenomena

[grimmett]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/170933...eliese_michel/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-YTE...amic_exorcism/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/150328...y_and_violent/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-uoA-dBREM5c/exorcism/

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/yt-KC5..._20_20_may_07/

[Geri_Mars]

Originally Posted by grimmett

And what exactly would be your source of facts?
Im not sure how old you are but from the sounds of your inexperiences im sure i was in this area of expertise when you was still in diapers.
So present your source of facts with proof as you say.

You cant say you actually have proof until you have experienced what your claiming or witnessed,thats the only true proof there is.
All other assumptions are by what you choose to believe and can also boil down to matter of opinion,but we all know what they say about opinions.

Ohh nice...you call anything other than possession..a matter of opinion...that's a matter of your OWN opinion!!! and it's amazing how you post up all of the above and not ONE source as to where to copied it from posted!!!!!!!!

People who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia and yet the ministers/priests/pastors that love to convince the victim that it's NOT that at all it's a DEMON.....they peg their condition with demon..only because they have no medical understanding of anything like it...and can get in serious trouble with the law if they get a person who is suffering to IGNORE a doctors advice and help....source of fact if you wish to look into

The symptoms of - schizophrenia are so very like what some religious people like to call possessed...

Here is a sourse of factual information you might want to look into...
It clearly lists the symptoms of the illness..that include..
- hallucinations, or delusions.

- Negative symptoms - symptoms that represent the reduction, or total lack of thoughts, or functions, that you would usually expect to see in a healthy person. For example, people with schizophrenia often appear emotionless, flat, and apathetic

- Behavioural problems
After some point, these negative symptoms will become more noticeable. The more noticeable symptoms are briefly outlined below.

A lack, or 'flattening', of emotions - your voice can become dull and monotonous, and your face takes on a constant blank appearance.
An inability to enjoy things that you used to enjoy.
Apathy - you have no motivation to follow through on any plans, and neglect household chores, such as washing the dishes, or cleaning your clothes.
Becoming increasingly uncommunicative - you may find it hard, or become reluctant, to speak to people.
The negative symptoms of schizophrenia can often lead to relationship problems with friends and family because they can sometimes mistake them for deliberate laziness, or rudeness.



More for you to read -> Click -> http://www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/articles...9&sectionId=10

and to think some religious people think they can cure it all with a splash of olive oil and a bucket of water!!!!!!!!!!

The bible uses hell, satan, demons as a scare tactic to get you to get closer to God...I think who ever thought of it was genius...it's a great sales pitch...think about it...a sales pitch that I didn't buy...but millions have...

The only real source of fact is from the person that has experienced it and doctors have tried to come to a conclusion as to what has happened to the victim....apart from that...if some religious person tries to say they were possessed...I don't buy it...NEVER

The videos are fake..and could never ever be proven to be real....there's a guy on another forum who believes they removed this demon...yet complains he still suffers...it's complete BULL CRAP...he ignored the doctor who tried to treat him...but his pastor..(to keep his arse safe from he law)...told the guy to at least spend time in a hospital...again to cover his OWN ass!!!! he has to..otherwise he can land himself in jail if anything happenes to the patient

[grimmett]

Honestly i didnt join this forum to debate religion or to impose religion on anyone.
I had someone in another forum message and told me about this forum and that he believed there was some people here in needed help and answers and could benefit from my knowledge.
My virtual door is always open to anybody in need of help and thats why i joined the forum.

God Bless!

[Geri_Mars]

Originally Posted by grimmett

Honestly i didnt join this forum to debate religion or to impose religion on anyone.
I had someone in another forum message and told me about this forum and that he believed there was some people here in needed help and answers and could benefit from my knowledge.
My virtual door is always open to anybody in need of help and thats why i joined the forum.

God Bless!

You have a right to say what you feel and to state what you believe, but if you read over it all, it does look as if you are getting a tad too serious over it, when in reality it is just a matter of FAITH. Too many forget what faith means, the mix it up with fact.

You can see it as fact to yourself, only because you believe and trust in it so strong....that's understandable

But you should consider that others don't hold the same belief as you and we are all different....like me, I don't believe in them and there are millions like me.

I too should have been a bit more understanding...I will try to be in future....but I will always be 100% careful to say - this is MY OWN personal belief <----actually I have typed this out in a few previous posts...to let others like yourself KNOW that I am not stating it as fact for them.

Feel free to state your beliefs...like I say, there is no harm in it...but please remember, that there are two things in this world that can get out of hand and cause stress and one too many heated arguments...those two things are - RELIGION & POLITICS

all the best

Geri

[Talisyn]

Originally Posted by grimmett

And what exactly would be your source of facts?
Im not sure how old you are but from the sounds of your inexperiences im sure i was in this area of expertise when you was still in diapers.
So present your source of facts with proof as you say.

You cant say you actually have proof until you have experienced what your claiming or witnessed,thats the only true proof there is.
All other assumptions are by what you choose to believe and can also boil down to matter of opinion,but we all know what they say about opinions.

She didn't say she had evidence the contrary she said the bible wasn't a source of fact. Your obsession with spouting the bible doesn't prove anything. I could quote Lord of the rings with the same level of accuracy to worldly goings on.

The bible is not a tool of reference. It I'll admit the most influential book of the last 2000 years but its not fact. the bible has been written and re-written since 50AD the biggest changes to my knowledge happened in the 1700s when the bible was "corrected" as it went into mass production. TO have a true source show me a true non-biased encyclopedia.

The bible itself is a piece of propaganda and the faith has little to no relation of the story inside.

Lets have a few examples now shall we.
Mithraism;
Mithraism was popular in the Roman Empire with many Emperors following, not just the populace. It had seven sacraments, the same as the Catholic Church, baptism, and communion with bread and water. The Eucharist hosts were signed with a cross, an ancient phallic symbol which originated in Egypt, and the Egyptian cross (the ankh) still shows the original form which included the female symbol.

St. Paul is attributed with the writing of 13 books in the Bible, 7 by himself and 6 by others in his name. He was born in Tarsus as "Saul" and adopted the Christian name of Paul after converting to what is now "Christianity". He was an early leader of the growing Christian churches around the Roman Empire, and the writings of St. Paul are the earliest existing Christian writings known to historians.

Paul mistook the Jewish "Messiah" to mean the Hellenistic "Christ". This happened before anything was written down; it happened during Paul's conversations with people as he was working through what had happened. A messiah is a person who is a great leader who leads your people to freedom. The title was taken by Jews from Persian culture. A christ is a god-king who dies as an offering to some divine being as a sacrifice in return for prosperity, especially agricultural prosperity. Both are anointed with oil as a mystical, sexual rite.

During the 1st century BC, a cult of Mithra, made much progress in Rome, after enduring persecution, when some Emperors adopted the religion... Mithra became very popular among the Roman legionaries and later even among the Emperors. The worship of Mithra was first recognized by Emperor Aurelian and he instituted the cult of "Sol Invictus" or the Invincible Sun. Emperor Diocletian also a worshiper of Mithra, the Sun God, burned much of the Christian scriptures in 307 A.D.
This enabled Emperor Constantine to merge the cult of Mithra with that of Christianity that was developing much. He declared himself a Christian but at the same time maintained his ties to the Mithra cult. He retained the title "Pontifus Maximus" the high priest. On his coins were inscribed: "Sol Invicto comiti" which means, commited to the invincible sun. This new blend of the two faiths, he officially proclaimed as Christianity. Until the fourth century, Mithra and Christianity were distinct but after Constantine, the two cults were blended to form the new faith that was to conquer most of the world.

In 313 A.D., Emperor Constantine declared December 25th to be the birthday of Jesus (December 25th was prescribed earlier as the birthday of Mithra, by emperor Aurelian). Sabbath day, which is literally Saturday (as the Jews still maintain), became Sunday as it was the day of the Sun, another element from the Mithra worship.

Next up is Paganism
Once the Christian faith reached Britain it encountered a wall of faith that was paganism and druid faith. The druids where dealt with in the simple Christian way of genocide. Culminating on the siege of Iona,

Understandably, if conquest of the Gallic and British peoples was to be complete, such an influential class of people would have to be removed. Such people were officially destroyed after a series of steps were taken, ending in the destruction of the Druid sanctuary on Iona (Angles). Suetonius describes the major steps taken in Gaul before the attack of Iona. He claims that Augustus prohibited Druidic religion among Roman citizens, and Tiberius issued a decree of the Senate against the Gallic Druids. This happened before the destruction of Iona, and without a doubt, many Druids and other inhabitants of Britain would have been aware of this, and tried to prepare for it. In 54 CE, Claudius tried his best to abolish Druidry in Gaul, but it was in Britain that this was achieved. In 60 CE, troops reached Iona.

Two legions, some 4,000 Batavarians, and other light cavalry and infantry faced the Druids on their island. The Romans defeated the Druids, the men and women who had stood screaming curses in defense of their groves and raised the island verdant cornfields.

Iona had been, by this time, a well established Druidic sanctuary; its lake, Llyn Cerrig Bach, contained over 150 metal objects, presumably votive offerings, dating from the 2nd Century BCE to the 1st Century CE. Its destruction would have devastated the morale of the remaining Druidic communities in Britain, and even the every-day civilians, especially of nearby tribesmen and women. While this ended the Druidic religion in official terms, this presumably did not mean the immediate stop of Druidic activity or influence.

Source http://druidry.org/obod/druid-path/beandrui.html


I might add to this later but ATM my fingers hurt.

[Geri_Mars]

Originally Posted by Talisyn

The bible is not a tool of reference. It Mithraism;
Mithraism was popular in the Roman Empire with many Emperors following, not just the populace. It had seven sacraments, the same as the Catholic Church, baptism, and communion with bread and water. The Eucharist hosts were signed with a cross, an ancient phallic symbol which originated in Egypt, and the Egyptian cross (the ankh) still shows the original form which included the female symbol.

I might add to this later but ATM my fingers hurt.

WOW before I begin..EXCELLENT post..you have a way with how you lay out your posts lol

SO glad to see you mentioned Mithra..aka Lord Mithra..that I believe is said to have been the true saviour, born of a virgin mother...had 12 apostles...died for sin..blah ...and long before this Jesus character was ever mentioned....couple hundred years or so before Jesus

And to top it all off...a number of christian leaders wanted to keep the word about Mithra under wraps..they DENY borrowing info from the religion, and claim all they borrowed were the drawings...I say the stole his life story and gave it a new name..

Look at Mithra's DOB...25th Dec ...and in the christian bible..Jesus's DOB is NOT mentioned...yet they clebrate his birthday on Mithra's actual birthday!!!! queer init?

Another thing is...the is an actual list of other saviours / messiah's before and around the same time as jesus..some are only mentioned in the footnotes of the bible...

Can't wait to see what else you post on this....