Aliens in the Bible?

[SmokingMan]

As most of us know, the Holy Bible is considered by many to be the complete divine revelation from God to man. Regardless of the different opinions for or against, one must consider the strength of its message, realizing that under the most constant and terrible persecution it has flourished and spread throughout the world from so simple a beginning, and has become the most successful and controversial message of all time. One must also wonder, "If there is indeed an all powerful sovereign God, and this God had anything to say to mankind, wouldn't this message, by God's blessing alone, be the most successful, being the message that God wants man to hear?"

Since the beginnings of the popularization of belief in extra-terrestrial life, people have begun to search what we know of history for evidence of UFOs and alien beings. The Bible, having over 24,000 ancient manuscripts (more than any other historical document in existance) that we can compare and contrast to insure that we have the most acurate translations even today, and seeming for the most part, to coincide with historical and archeological findings, is no exception to this search.

Does the Bible mention extra-terrestrial life? Certainly there are many things that the Bible says about celestial beings, fire in the sky, wheels in the sky, strange looking creatures, people coming on the clouds, etc., and written by those with such primative knowledge of the universe in antiquity, we may assume that many of the authors could not understand completely the visions given to them, or the physical events that occured. In the fundamental theology of christianity one might consider the thought of extra-terrestrial life to be heresy. But what does the Bible itself say?

I have a dear friend in Cheyenne, Wyoming. He's a Christian, fairly well studied in the Bible. He's about twice my age and in so many words, works for the government. In trying to explain to me what he does for a living, he couldn't make it clear, but I know that he has been involved in classified projects. Perhaps, he is bound to not exposing the complete nature of his work, but I will not jump to such a conclusion for myself. He told me that during the time of the Roswell events, the military was working on some high-tech, top secret stuff, and that when the rumors of a possible alien crash began, and still today continue to linger, the people who actually knew, and know now what was and is going on felt that it was better for the public to keep themselves occupied with UFOs and aliens, rather than, having people getting close to the real truth in their investigations. So, think what you want to about that.

Now, because no one knows who I am, I think I can safely share something about my father. He graduated college with a Master in physics, and since has worked for McDonald Douglas, Ford Aerospace, Northrup Grummen, Norden Systems, etc. and has patents on programs and projects that are
working in the front line of U.S. aerospace technology, technology that has also been sold to other countries as well. But he is also a man of faith and has been studying the Bible for over 40 years. As a father, friend, knowledge resource, husband, grandfather now, and disregarding my love and biased, I have to say he's one of the very most wonderful men alive. However there are many things about his work he cannot tell me. In junior high school I did an oral report about how the FA-18 Hornet flier pod works (back then, I was into fighter jets) and he helped me put the project together, but for many of my questions, he replied, "I can't tell you that, it's classified." Furthermore, the FBI came to our neighborhood and asked all of our neighbors what they knew about my father, his job, what he's involved with. Our family became outcasts in the neighborhood for awhile until the neighbors learned that he was just working on classified government issues rather than drug smuggling or child porn or something. That was a little scary though.

But, one day I asked him if he believed in the existence of aliens. Knowing that I myself am a man of faith, he replied, "Are God and angels not extra-terrestrial beings?" I had pondered the possibility of the two ideas being one in the same before, but from him, this was big to me. I then said something to the tune of, "Yeah, but God and angels are spiritual beings, with as far as we know, no physical presence aside from Christ who was incarnated as a human into the physical world." He replied by saying, "If the Bible does not SPECIFICALLY say that something is or is not, was or was not, we just have to keep an open mind to it." As a guy who has been studying the Bible for as long as he has, and with his knowledge of science and classified issues I wonder what he can't tell me. I know that he has kept classified knowledge from me, but that's his job. It doesn't mean he lies to me, it means that to support his family, he has to do his job, which includes things he must keep secret. Sometimes if I asked my mom such questions, she would say, "Ask your father." I also know from experience that there is biblical and spiritual
knowledge and wisdom that he withheld from me because he knew that I was not spiritually matured and/or prepared for it yet at the time, and I'm sure there's more to come, but that's for the next chapter of my life, I guess.

What do you think?

[Tecnos]

The Old Testament?

or the New?

I would expect that the Old Testament is choc full of references, the New..... not so much!

The problem with the Old Testament though, I would think, is the interpretation of it.

I would also think the Dead Sea Scrolls have the odd bit or bob.....

Watchers, The Nephilim and so and and so forth......

Just found this:

http://www.bibleufo.com/anomlostbooks2.htm

[SmokingMan]

Tecnos,

Interesting that you should bring up the Nephilim, especially because of the idea of alien abductions for the possible purpose of hybridization. The name Nephilim means "fallen ones", and the Bible seems to imply that they were the result of fornication between fallen angelic men and human women. Beside the Nephilim and Rephaim, who seem to be the race of "giants" apparently hunted to extinction by the children of Israel, the Bible mentions seraphim, and cherubim as castses of angelic beings. Have you ever read the first chapter of the book of Ezekiel? People tend to mention this vision when looking for references to aliens in the Bible. Ezekiel is shown a vision of four living creatures and he describes the vision in great detail. One of the interesting things is that each creature has a wheel that follows the creature wherever it goes. The craftsmanship of the wheels is as if they were a wheel within a wheel. The appearance of the wheels is high and awesome with eyes all around. These creatures show up again in Ezekiel around about chapter 10 I think, and then they appear again in the book of Revelation in the New Testament. Revelation itself mentions a whole lot of wierd events and beings coming out of the sky as well.

[Mingus]

Interestingly, your father's dualistic attitude on God and ET's pretty much matches with my dualistic thoughts on good and evil, in regards to God and Satan. Logical deduction can conclude that both dualistic attitudes may be correct.

I take the unintentionally New Agey approach to God. I worked out in my head about a year ago that God created Satan, with the rest of the angels, with the intention of allowing what happened to happen; hence the divine plan. This then gives you a choice. You can either choose God's path or Satan's path. Either way, you're going to see the creator at the end and you might be taken in by him or you may be directed to Satan, as per your choices on Earth; that's why we see the gates of Heaven first, as popularized in our culture (whether that's in the Bible or not, I don't know... I'm not religious).

[SmokingMan]

TeslaTom,

The word "faith", or in some cases, "belief", as seen in the Bible is interpruted,
obviously, from Greek or Hebrew words. Though "faith" is an accurate translation, it is not a complete translation. Literally the definitions of these words imply "substantiation". Faith, though it can be defined as "blind belief" is more literally and accurately defined: the ability to substantiate something; to take in and perceive. In the same way our eyes substantiate light, depth, color etc. and our mind interpruts these elements to project a picture we can understand, we can choose to have the ability to substantiate the unseen.
Take for example a radio receiver. You cannot see, hear, touch, taste or smell radio waves. They cannot be literally or physically observed. But a radio receiver is built to receive the invisible radio waves in the air, interprut them electronically into audio, and send them through speakers so that they can be heard. The spirit of man is exactly that. Faith, the ability to substantiate that which lies beyond our physical demensions, is available and accessible to man, but man must choose to receive it. At first, most people do believe things in "blind faith", and there's nothing wrong with that. But over time and experience, one learns discernment and no longer just believes, but he knows what he knows. To give you a more authoritative answer, take a look at 1 Corinthians chapter 2, and John 20:22-31.

[SmokingMan]

Mingus,

I agree with you. In fact, over so many verses in so many different places, this is, in so many words, what the Bible seems to imply. If you put a mouse in a box with a piece of cheese, it's going to eat the cheese. But if you put cheese and a peanut in the box with it, then you can find out what the mouse prefers. Not to downplay God's purpose into some silly science experiment, but if God wants man to love Him for the right reasons, man must be given the freedom of choice; hence God's opposite, Satan. In His divine economy revealed in the Bible though, God intends to dispense His very life and nature into man gradually until man becomes His very physical expression, enlargement and expansion through and with which He'll govern the universe when He eventually sets up His Kingdom in eternity.

[Tecnos]

The rise of the Watchers

The Watchers. They first appear on the scene in Sumer. “Shumer”, it seems, literally means the “Land of the Watchers”. For the American author Zecharia Sitchin, they are alien beings whose specific task is to orbit the earth, monitoring events on Earth. For Sitchin, the Watchers are not a “race” or a “species”, they are merely a “job specification”. Their colleagues had abandoned their ships and had landed on Earth – they continued to orbit the Earth. Those who did land, either mated or genetically engineered Mankind into its present form. As a consequence, Mankind worshipped the Watchers as gods.

Carl Sagan once remarked that we still have no clear perspective about the origins of the Sumerian culture. “Their language is foreign; it shows no resemblance to Indo-European, Semitic or any other language. We can only map them by the actions of their successors, the Akkadians, who created a voluminous Sumerian-Akkadian dictionary.”
The Chaldeans referred to the Watchers as “Ir”. The Egyptians “neter” means Watcher. And the Watchers are also in the Bible, where, in Genesis 6:1-4, they are listed as the sons of Gods who “fell” for the Earthly women, descended from heaven, chose women, and had children. They were described as “giants”, though the height of their fathers is never stated. Still, the giants did not sleep or spoke.
The Bible refers to the Watchers or Grigori as “evil”. They were the ones who “fell from heaven” and who were “weak” for the flesh of women. In this respect, they sit within the tradition of Lucifer, the leader of the Fallen Angels, who came to Earth. Could the leader of the Watchers and the biblical Lucifer be one and the same?

The Koran has a similar story, though the strict good vs. evil of the Bible has been toned down. Two angels, Harut and Marut, watch the actions of Mankind and note that Mankind seems to be unable to escape temptation and sin. The angels’ negative comments are heard by God, who states that the two angels should not speak of Mankind in such manner. If the angels were placed in an identical situation, their behaviour would be similar. Harut and Marut consider this to be an invitation from God and are sent to Earth. God asks – demands – that they do not fall for the gravest of sins: murder, worship of the wrong deities, alcohol and unlawful sexual relationships. But the angels have just arrived and immediately fall in love with Earth’s beauty. When a passer-by seems their sexual adventure, they kill him, so that no-one will be able to report their sin. But God’s Eye is everywhere and God makes sure that their colleagues in heaven – the other Watchers – also get to see their crimes.
As the two angels were unsuccessful in their task, they are hung upside down in a water hole in Babylon, a punishment they prefer over Hell. At the same time, the other Watchers have to agree with God about his point of view on the difficulties of being a human.
It seems that this story is twofold: to repeat what is right and wrong, but also to teach those in Heaven some respect towards Mankind and its challenges.

The Nephilim, the giants, continued to live on Earth. It seems that their biggest contribution on Earth was the creation of chaos. Most ancient civilisations had a major fascination with order vs. chaos, good vs. evil. Evil would create chaos and thus the Nephilim, the sons of the Fallen Angels, obviously displayed their fathers’ faults. This eventually leads God to decide to send a Deluge, to wash away the sins of these beings. Here, we find another parallel with the story of Harut and Marut: they are also “washed of their sins” in the water hole in Babylon. Water as the cleanser of sin is therefore chose in both – as opposed to a “baptism by fire”.
Still, Jewish history suggests that not all Nephilim perished. The Jews stated that they lived in Israel and the Anakim and Rephaim were both tribes considered to have been descended from the Nephilim. There remained a few Nephilim who fought in some of the battles, but they slowly seemed to have disappeared from the scene. Perhaps they married and their specific characteristics – apparently six toes and six fingers – disappeared within the larger genetic pool.

The story of the Watchers fell in disrespect within the Catholic Church, who wanted to portray Heaven as good and perfect – whereas the Watchers were all too human, it seemed, to neatly fit within this depiction. The Book of Enoch, which provides great detail about the Watchers, was not included in the Bible. Its substitute was the Apocalypse of John, where there are no references to Watchers mating with human women. Still, some references remained. In Daniel (4:13, 17 and 23) they appear, even making an appearance in front of the king.

In 1990, the Watchers were back with a vengeance. Sitchin had prepared the way, and others were now jumping on the wagon – in which UFO researcher Raymond Fowler made a major contribution.
Since 1979, Fowler has been researching the case of an alleged UFO abductee, Betty Andreasson-Luca, a deeply religious American woman who claims she has been abducted by alien beings. Fowler concluded that Andreasson’s story was legitimate – she had not confabulated this account to create attention or controversy. A series of books was the result, the third of which was titled “The Watchers”. The title is derived from information given by the abductors to Andreasson. They identified themselves as “The Watchers”, guardians of the Earth. They stated they had been present since earliest human history and that they had always lived next to us. Andreasson was given this revelation as they wanted Mankind to know that Man was more than just a body. Andreasson was tasked with giving this knowledge to Mankind; it was the main reason why she had been contacted by them.

Fowler’s book created some interest. Gregory Little was most impressed and made a study of the Book of Enoch, in light of Andreasson’s revelation. He identified that the Book of Enoch noted that there were angels both at the gates of Heaven and Hell – mimicking the Egyptian neters, who also guard the gates of Heaven and Hell in the Egyptian Afterlife. Little noted that the guardians of Sheol – hell – were described as angels “grey of colour, small as children, with a shape that is somewhat similar to the human form.” Little observed that this description was not present in the Slavic edition of the Book (the most commonly used), but was present in the Hebrew version.
Little realised that Fowler himself was unaware of this passage, but was it not obvious that the “little grey aliens” seemed to be “witnessed” in ancient times, where they had been described as guardians of Hell – and not as extraterrestrial beings.

Further research brought Little across a Jewish encyclopaedia. It stated that the Fallen Angels that shown Mankind how to “call upon” other angels from heaven. It involved a technique which allowed Mankind to make angels materialise. The technique was a ritual chanting, which had to occur at certain times and places to be effective. However, the key message was the “materialisation” of the “angels” in physical form – was this not another key ingredient of the UFO phenomenon?

Betty Andreasson

Reanalysing Fowler’s book, certain imagery there was similar to that of the Watchers. Andreasson had described how the Watchers guarded a door. Under hypnosis, she stated how she was shown a “Great Door” and how she was lead towards it. “The door is an entrance to the other world. The world of light.” Behind the door, was the abode of “The One”, “home”, God, whom she met – though she was unwilling to give further details.
Did the Christian Andreasson merely confabulate stories she might have seen in her childhood with reality? Perhaps. But it is clear that she is not the only person who claims to have been abducted. Fowler himself analysed the Book of Enoch and came upon an intriguing reference on the general UFO abduction phenomenon. Enoch is home alone, resting in a seat and falls asleep. Suddenly, he hears something, though does not understand what is being said. Two men appear at the end of his feet; they know his name. Enoch wakes up, sees the two men and is afraid. They tell him not to be afraid, “you will ascend to Heaven with us”. It is in Heaven that Enoch is brought in front of “the Elders” and the rulers of a “stellar hegemony”.
The events described by Enoch are identical – if not archetypal – of the events reported in UFO abductions. Fowler was also intrigued by references Andreasson had made. She had described a group of blond human-like beings that were in control of the grey beings. She named these blond people “the Elders”.

True or not, there are important cultural parallels between the story of Enoch and the modern UFO abduction phenomenon. Budd Hopkins, who is largely responsible for the modern definition of the UFO phenomenon as an interaction of alien beings with Mankind for the creation of a hybrid race, has thus identified a modern parallel with the Watchers.
The Watchers materialised on Earth to have children with female women. The UFO abductors materialise on Earth to abduct people, resulting in pregnancies or a general interest in female genetic material. The consequences of these actions are “Giants” or “hybrid babies”.
The parallels are there, but what do they mean? Are they ancient legends, adapted to our modern civilisation? Or are they genuine events, written down both in ancient and modern times? Is history repeating itself? Or are we merely still intrigued by the same heroic and thrilling stories of our ancestors?

Phil Coppens

[SmokingMan]

Tecnos,

Good stuff. You seem like one who might be interested in a book I read years ago. I wonder if you've heard of it or read it? It's either called "The Gold of El Dorado", or "El Dorado's Gold". I'm not sure; it's been a long time. I believe the author is Joseph Whitman, though that is not the authors real name. After publishing the book he went into seclusion, never exposing his true identity. I believe he lives alone out in the woods somewhere if he's still alive. His book is presented as fact, yet he refuses to answer questions brought up about it, and at the beginning of the book, to cover his tracks, he issues a blanket statement that if you want to learn the truth in the book, you have to forget everything you know to be true. He goes on to tell of his abduction by aliens and how they told him all of the secrets of the universe, explaining everything about human spirituality, the future, extra-terrestrial life and the universe itself. I have to say, though I consider it a good sci-fi book, it's incredibly interesting and compelling. Ever read it? If not, I would suggest it to someone who enjoys the kind of literature you seem to.

[kidflash2008]

Betty Andreasson-Luca believes she was abducted. The problem I have is her deeply religious (Christian) beliefs are interpreted in her abduction. Other than her hypnotic regression, there is no evidence of her abduction.
Zecharia Sitchin is not an expert in the Sumerian culture, and yet his books are believed by millions of readers. Most of the experts dismiss Mr Sitchin's interpretation of the tablets. I have read his early works, and while he does raise interesting questions, the way he quickly chalks it all up to aliens is too convenient. Where are the pieces and evidence of old rockets? Even after thousands of years, there would be evidence left of such things. Why did the Sumerians mentions Pluto but forget its sister planet Charon (which is nearly the same size)? Why did they not mention the moons of Jupiter or Sedna, Makemake, Eris, etc? These are valid questions that Mr Sitchin, nor his readers can answer.

I tend to believe there was a much older civilization that was spiritual in nature that thrived thousands of years earlier. The comets that hit the Earth 12,900 years ago wiped out their cities and they had to start over from scratch. They tried to teach the peoples of the Americas and Egypt their forgotten science, and the knowledge was lost quite soon after that. We spiraled downhill until the bottom of the Dark Ages, and it took the Renaissance to start us back. Unfortunately, we are taking a more materialistic approach to technology and science. The old ways of knowing the Earth are gone, except for a few cultures out there.

[Tecnos]

The old ways of knowing the Earth are gone, except for a few cultures out there.

Whittle away the wheat from the chaff, and THAT is one quote I will say that I 100% concur with!